Abraham Never existed? Mocospace forum discussion:


Galatians 4:22-24King James Version (KJV)

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

In the above verse, some say that this is proof that Abraham, Issac, Sarah, Ishmael, didn’t exist, but were allegory, what say you???



1 Like

jwest12 How would that be proof of anything either way?

l.nya.w Simple. Jehovah God made a covenant with Abraham so He knows that Abraham existed. Enough said. jw.org

d2478 By calling the story an allegory, it’s saying they never existed

g_u_a_r_d_i_a_n Abraham may or may not of existed, nevertheless, biblical verses aren’t really the route to take to prove this.

d2478 This is Paul, and he is saying the story of Abraham and his two sons, is an allegory, now, what say you??

poetic_zeal777 R2D2, never existed.

09umt09 Most of the Bible is myth and allegory, Paul’s Epistle shows that the ancients were aware of that. The Jews admit that many of the stories are told to teach a moral lesson. Much of Genesis was “borrowed” from the Sumerians and Babylonians, both of which admitted the tales were made up on the realist grounds than nobody who witnessed what really happened was still alive.

09umt09 Its known that in the time period Abraham supposedly took place, nomadic Sumerian herders/mercenaries were drifting into the Levant. Abraham is a pretty obvious composite of these nomad chieftains.

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Matthew 13 parables & metaphors. John 17 we are not of this world Can you read the language of symbols and math? This is the language of GENESIS 11










John Cusack, Superstar: The Ka of Hathor

Syncromysticism buffs will surely know of the Pleaides, the constellation known as the Seven Sisters. Billy Meier’s alleged alien friends Semjase and Asket hailed from this constellation, and there’s been a lot of speculation concerning the link between the Pleaides and the Stargate.

Interest in the Pleiades is apparently nothing new. One Stargate theorist quoted a 19th Century metaphysician named R.G. Haliburton (!) who…

…was able to gather sufficient information to offer some rather dramatic thoughts about the Pleiades. He believed that, a world-wide tradition of relating to the Pleiades had its source at a distant, beginning point in the history of humankind. An era when the constellation represented the “central sun of all religions, calendars, myths, traditions, and symbolism.” Haliburton recorded that “the ancients believed that Alcyone of the Pleiades was the center of the universe ~ that Paradise, the primal home of humankind and the abode of the Deity and the spirits of the dead, was in the Pleiades”.

What some of you may not realize is the Egyptians referred to the Pleiades as “the Seven Hathors.” If you haven’t already, I’d recommend reading up on Hathor. I believe this fascinating archetype is going to be very important in the years to come in the Symbolsphere. It is the functional thesis of The Secret Sun is that the Osirian Age is over, and the Age of Horus is in full swing. Accordingly, the symbols that manifest themselves in our lives and in our media are going to be much different. Some of this will be by conscious design, some of it will not.

She was originally a personification of the Milky Way, which was considered to be the milk that flowed from the udders of a heavenly cow (linking her with Nut, Bat and Mehet-Weret). As time passed she absorbed the attributes of many other goddesses but also became more closely associated with Isis, who to some degree usurped her position as the most popular and powerful goddess. Yet she remained popular throughout Egyptian history. More festivals were dedicated to her and more children were named after her than any other god or goddess. Her worship was not confined to Egypt and Nubia. She was worshipped throughout Semitic West Asia, Ethiopian, Somlia and Libya, but was particularly venerated in the city of Byblos.

She was a sky goddess, known as “Lady of Stars” and “Sovereign of Stars” and linked to Sirius (and so the goddesses Sopdet and Isis). Her birthday was celebrated on the day that Sirius first rose in the sky (heralding the coming innundation). By the Ptolemaic period, she was known as the goddess of Hethara, the third month of the Egyptian calendar. – Ancient Egypt Online

As I wrote previously, I believe that the name Catherine is actually derived from Hathor (or Athyr as she is alternately known), through a Greco-Egyptian Mystery cult code- Ka- Athyr-Ein-meaning “to have the Ka of Athyr.” I believe that this name will be associated with queenship (I just read an article referring to Catherine the Great in relation to the Spitzer scandal), and I’ve seen the many variations of Catherine- Kate, Cate, Kathryn, Karen, Kaitlyn, Kathleen- repeat themselves over and over in my studies of Symbology, particularly as it relates to Hollywood. Let’s look at a few examples.

The current wife of one of the (if not the) reigning kings of Hollywood is Kate Capshaw.

The wife of the future king of Hollywood (that is, when the Church of Scientology inevitably takes complete control of it) is Katie Holmes.

Our friend John Cusack has experience with several Ka-Hathor’s, perhaps the most important being Catherine Elise Blanchett, whom we looked at on Monday. We’ll be looking at Pushing Tin in far greater depth in the near future, but this reference in the film that Cusack’s character’s house is empty without her ties in neatly with the fact that Hathor’s Egyptian name is Het-Hert, meaning “House of Horus.” This scene takes place right before the film’s last WTC fly-by.

Another Cusack film we’ll be looking at in detail in the future is Serendipity, co-staring Kate Beckinsale. Notice how Cusack finds his Hathor in an area ringed by stars. This film also featured Tom Brady’s former flame, Bridget Moynihan.

Just a few short weeks before 9/11, Cusack starred with Catherine Zeta-Jones in America’s Sweethearts, which also featured Julia Roberts, who played the girlfriend of Solaris star George Clooney in Soderbergh’s Oceans 11, 12 and 13 movies.

Clooney’s Cybele in Solaris was the delightful Natacha McElhone (also of Revelations fame with Independence Day star Bill Pullman), who plays David Duchovny’s wife Karen in Californication. Natacha means “Christmas Day.” This is not Duchovny’s first ritual drama, of course, and this July we’ll see the return of his first Hathor…

…Dana Katherine Scully.

We looked closely at Catherine Keener’s role as Cybele in The 40-Year Old Virgin and this Hathor also co-starred with Cusack in Being John Malkovich, written by Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind creator Charlie Kaufman.

…and of course Eternal Sunshine starred Kate Winslet.

The ritual drama called Red Planet, which we looked at in relation to Baptist symbolism, features Carrie Ann Moss as Kate Bowman. Moss is better known for her work in The Matrix films, but her most important role is as Natalie (Natalie also means “Christmas Day”) in Memento, which we’ll also be looking at in the future.

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FilmNoir23 2:31 PM, March 27, 2008

Anyone interested in how Christopher’s post relates to upcoming astronomical events should check this out!



Christopher Loring Knowles 2:36 PM, March 27, 2008

Awesome- Synchronicity is alive and well!



Just Me 5:00 PM, March 27, 2008

Wikipedia says of Hathor, “An alternate name for Hathor, which persisted for 3,000 years, was Mehturt (also spelt Mehurt, Mehet-Weret, and Mehet-uret), meaning ‘great flood, a direct reference to her being the milky way.” Have you noticed all the flood references lately, both in movies and in reality? “Evan Almighty” and “The Day After Tomorrow” are two movies that come to mind. This year we have horrendous flooding across the country. There was the great tsunami, too.

Steve Carrell played the Noah character in Evan Almighty. When he starred in the 40 Year-Old Virgin, another synchromystic role, he played opposite Catherine Keener.


Christopher Loring Knowles 5:13 PM, March 27, 2008

Awesome, JM, thanks for the tip!


FilmNoir23 5:52 PM, March 27, 2008

The flood/water element is also VERY strong in what I am working on right now.

I would totally see this as especially important as well.


Anonymous 12:44 PM, March 28, 2008


The Pleiades is in Taurus (the bull) isn’t it.I al… The Pleiades is in Taurus (the bull) isn’t it.

I also tend to think of them as a bird flock, because Orion is kind of firing the bow towards them. I might also think of them that way because in a Barbara Marciniak book the Pleiadians say they are attempting to fix a problem they didn’t mean to contribute to here (I think the major hint was that they had to do with making people, or at least some of them), and I associated that with the Annunaki and bird-people & dragons (birds being like dinosaurs, and evolved from reptiles), such as appear as Neters and in Sitchin’s books too.

Also – wingmakers! The ‘Labyrinth Group’ symbol is the Atlantean concentric circles.

I was also reading Barbara Hand Clow books around the same time, and found they corresponded, as what she wrote about 4D (as in symbolic & archetypal) emotional dramas and how the Annunaki run people through them ritualisticly, matched up exactly with what the Pleiadians in the Barbara Marciniak books were saying as to removing forms of emotional controls.

Another related link there being a description by Barbara Hand Clow about a ritual in ancient Greece when people were made to go through a pitch-dark labyrinth as an initiation, and she went though it (the books are sort of channeled and sort of about past lives too, digging into the past for emotional blocks that affect the present) and discovered the preists had trapped a bull or Minotaur in the center, so they could use it to scare those they wanted to initiate – so she untied the bull and brought it out and freed it!


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Christopher Loring Knowles

Alt-History and Pop-Cult Symbology from the author of the Eagle Award-winning Our Gods Wear Spandex: The Secret History of Comic Book Heroes, published by Red Wheel/Weiser and co-author of The Complete X-Files: Behind the Series, the Myths, and the Movies, published by Insight Editions. The Secret History of Rock ‘n’ Roll is available from Viva Editions now! View my complete profile

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